Complete Beginner Advice - Hikvision camera & NVR selection?

[benm]

HI!
I'm looking to buy my first (3) cameras and have been recommended Hikvision and am getting PoE put in. I'm putting them in the Soffit so will get turret or dome (without glass)
I've been looking at the Dark Fighter (not 'powered by') and the ColorVu and would like to use all the smart new features with an NVR

I was going to go straight for the ColorVu but for various reasons I am not allowed to have the white light enabled.
I was wondering whether even with it disabled, would something like a 4MP DS-2CD2347G2-LU be better than e.g. an 8K DS-2CD2386G2-IU, or does it completely depend on the amount of ambient light (I've seen this video but it has a fair amount of light source)? I also don't want to pay massive amounts of money where it isn't really required.

I'm basically asking what would you experts recommend to me in terms of poe camera (both ColorVue and DarkFighter) and also NVR? I have been told to allow for 1tb per camera for event-based recording?

Many thanks for your help in advance!

Ben

 

[David]

@benm my security cameras are around 1.8m above the ground. That gives a better view of faces and makes lens cleaning / spider webs removal easier.

It is a shame you cannot use ColorVu as I really like my DS-2CD2347G1-LU and would use ColorVu to replace my other cameras.

 

[Ianc]

Hi Ben, the ColorVu cameras have no ir capability so with the white light disabled they will rely solely on ambient lighting to give a clear image so the AcuSense range, such as the DS-2CD2386G2-IU, may be the better option.

I've been looking at both these ranges myself and cannot decide. I was worried that mounting cameras at 2m from ground level they should ideally be vandal dome, for obvious reasons, which limits choice.

 

[Kyle]

Hi @benm

It depends what your main requirements from the camera are.

The ColorVu ranges are best for generating a low-light image (and will do so in darker scenes than the Darkfighter cameras), but you do still need some ambient light (at least a few streetlights), as @Ianc mentions, for it to work. Otherwise, it will call on its built-in light. ColorVu is the way to go if achieving a colour image at night is your priority.

The DS-2CD2386G2-IU is a model that we commonly recommend, and the 8MP resolution will definitely be beneficial if the camera is mounted high and covering a larger space. This camera will generate a monochrome image in full resolution using it's invisible IR LEDs, but also does have Darkfighter technology, which also helps with low-light colour imaging (although not as specialised as the ColorVu range).

I'd be inclined to opt for one of the IR cameras rather than ColorVu if the visible built-in light is a concern, as it's difficult to know if this will ever be needed until the camera is deployed.

For the NVR, any I-Series model is always our recommendation. These are the most futureproof NVRs and they still receive firmware updates and are the model on which multiple AcuSense or 8MP cameras will work reliably. The smallest I-Series NVR is the DS-7608NI-I2-8P, to which you can connect 8 cameras and 2 hard drives.

1TB per camera storage sounds reasonable too, but this can totally vary depending on the resolutions of the cameras you go for and settings used.
This guide explains the variables involved, what our recommended Surveillance Hard Drive is and why, and how you can calculate your requirements once you have some cameras in mind:

One of the key decisions you’ll need to make when purchasing a surveillance system is that of storage space. You’ll need to ensure that you have sufficient space available to store the recorded footage for your desired time period to avoid having to repurchase and reinstall storage solutions at a later date. Luckily, Western Digital have a simple-to-use Surveillance Storage Capacity Estimator Tool so that you can effectively prepare for your storage needs. This tutorial will walk you through how to properly use this handy tool!

Before you start, you’ll need to consider the key variables that will impact the storage requirements of your system. These are:

• The number of cameras that you’ll be recording from
• The number of days’ worth of recording you want to be able to store
• The hours per day you’ll be recording for
• The video format/compression you’ll be setting your cameras to record in (MPEG, H.264, H.265 or H.265+)
• The resolution of the cameras you’ll be recording from (in megapixels)
• The video quality you’ll be setting your cameras to. (Low, medium or high. Most cameras will be set to medium as a default.)
• The ‘busyness’ of the scene you’ll be recording (i.e. is it a busy street or office space with lots of constant movement, or a garage or garden with very little movement occurring within it for the most part?)
• The FPS (Frames per Second) you’ll be setting your cameras to record at.

How do I use this calculator to identify my storage needs?

Firstly, you'll need to open the webpage for Western Digital’s Surveillance Storage Capacity Estimator Tool.

Once there, fill out all of the fields as follows:

View attachment 3327

1. Cameras: Insert the number of cameras that you have that are the same resolution. I.e. if your system includes two 4MP cameras and two 8MP cameras, insert a value of two in to this field to calculate the storage needs of the two four megapixels. You can then calculate the requirements of the other two (8MP) cameras separately and add these values together to get your total later on.
   
   
2. Days to store: Insert the number of days’ worth of footage you want to record.
   
   
3. Hours per day: Insert the number of hours per day you will be setting the cameras to record for. If you’ll be setting them to record continuously, set this at 24 hours.
   
   
4. Video format: The datasheet for your camera will tell you which video compression formats are supported by it. You should also check which of these your NVR supports too, as some of the older models have limitations on supported compression. If your system can handle h.265+ compression then we typically suggest you enable it to maximise your available storage and bandwidth. To understand the benefits of using h.265+, please take out look at our useful article on the potential bandwidth and storage savings of H.265+ encoding technology.
   
   NB: Smart features are not supported by H.265+. So, if you’re planning on using these features in your setup, you’ll need to calculate the storage based on H.264 or H.265 compression/video format, regardless of if your camera supports H.265+ compression.
   
   
5. Resolution: Pretty self-explanatory, just input the individual resolutions (in MP) of each camera you’re using. If these resolutions differ between cameras then calculate the storage per camera resolution group, as mentioned above, and add the values together.
   
   
6. Video quality: This is completely up to what you decide to set the camera’s video quality to. We normally go for either medium or high and there’s not a great deal of difference between the two in honesty. You can tinker about with both options to see the difference in values or just set it as high to give you a bit of a safety net!
   
   
7. Scene activity: This is also completely dependent on each application. High scene activity would be something like a busy street with lots of traffic. Low scene activity would be of a still scene with little movement going on in it, such as a garden or unused room. Medium is, well, somewhere in the middle!
   
   
8. Frames per second (FPS): Another one that’s up to you. The higher the framerate (FPS) then the smoother the video will be. Your camera will be set to its maximum as a default, which will be shown on its spec sheet. We normally recommend setting cameras to around 15 FPS to save on bandwidth and storage requirements while still maintaining a smooth video. 15 FPS is not an option on this calculator, so if you’re setting the cameras to this, then choosing 18 FPS for this field is your best call.

View attachment 3328

That should be all the required fields filled, so now just hit calculate and your storage needs will appear in the Total storage capacity (TB)* box. Remember, this value is given in terabytes, and there are 1,000 gigabytes to every terabyte. So, 0.01TB = 1GB, 0.1TB = 100GB and so on! If you have any other questions, feel free to create a new thread referencing this article, and I’ll respond as soon as I can!

 

[benm]

Many thanks for your help everyone. I guess I could try and find a light monitor to somehow measure the ambient light, or I will just have to take the plunge with one.
I heard there may be an 8mp turret PoE ColorVu coming out very soon - can anyone confirm this with a date or is it maybe just a rumour?
Thanks

 

[Kyle]

We suspect there will be an 8MP turret soon, but have not had confirmation of this yet - We have seen the 8MP DS-2CD2T87G2-L Bullet available in the UK, and the DS-2CD2087G2-L(U) Mini Bullet is due to arrive soon, so a turret is likely not far behind.

I've just posted a couple of images taken at night on a customer's DS-2CD2T87G2-L Bullet at the bottom of this thread which show the type of image quality you can expect with a bit of ambient light - Hikvision 4K ColorVu or AcuSense?

 

[benm]

hmm ok thanks!
It looks like they are using lights in those pictures though (shadows, etc). I wonder if there are any non-white light colorvu pictures from just moonlight/starlight?

 

[Kyle]

My apologies, we concluded that there's definitely some sort of additional light in play in those pictures!

I've not been able to find anything to show the performance using starlight only, but this video nicely shows the difference between images when the camera has it's built-in light turned both off and on - Hikvision 8MP ColourVu Camera Day & Night Footage Review

As you can see, having some light sources in the scene does really help, but the camera still performs well with minimal ambient lighting in the scene, which is shown at 21:50 of the video.

Hope that helps

 

[benm]

Many thanks for your help. I think i'm just going to have to bite the bullet and buy one.

 

[Madgame87]

Hi @benm

It depends what your main requirements from the camera are.

The ColorVu ranges are best for generating a low-light image (and will do so in darker scenes than the Darkfighter cameras), but you do still need some ambient light (at least a few streetlights), as @Ianc mentions, for it to work. Otherwise, it will call on its built-in light. ColorVu is the way to go if achieving a colour image at night is your priority.

The DS-2CD2386G2-IU is a model that we commonly recommend, and the 8MP resolution will definitely be beneficial if the camera is mounted high and covering a larger space. This camera will generate a monochrome image in full resolution using it's invisible IR LEDs, but also does have Darkfighter technology, which also helps with low-light colour imaging (although not as specialised as the ColorVu range).

I'd be inclined to opt for one of the IR cameras rather than ColorVu if the visible built-in light is a concern, as it's difficult to know if this will ever be needed until the camera is deployed.

For the NVR, any I-Series model is always our recommendation. These are the most futureproof NVRs and they still receive firmware updates and are the model on which multiple AcuSense or 8MP cameras will work reliably. The smallest I-Series NVR is the DS-7608NI-I2-8P, to which you can connect 8 cameras and 2 hard drives.

1TB per camera storage sounds reasonable too, but this can totally vary depending on the resolutions of the cameras you go for and settings used.
This guide explains the variables involved, what our recommended Surveillance Hard Drive is and why, and how you can calculate your requirements once you have some cameras in mind:

I’ve been lurking for a bit. To clarify, will the Darkfighter 4MP and 8MP fair well at night with a street light in view or ambient lights from neighbours? Not too concerned with colour at night, rather the Acusense technology.

I’d opt for ColorVu, but they don’t have the strobe and siren function.

 

[Dan]

Hi @Madgame87

The Darkfighter cameras will achieve similar low-light colour images to the ColorVu cameras, but with minimal ambient light in the scene, the darkest elements of the scene will seem much darker on the Darkfighter cameras.

See this comparison video of an 8MP Darkfighter camera vs. a 4MP G2 ColorVu, this scene is an industrial site with much more ambient light from multiple floodlights so this scene is probably slight brighter than a normal residential street but you can still see that the Darkfighter is slightly darker than the ColorVu.

 

[benm]

Hi all
still haven't bought one
Just wondering if there was any update on the 4k turret poe colorvu release, or whether anyone has managed to find any moonlight colorvu footage yet?
Also - can you please tell me if there is any difference between the Colorvu and the IR cameras in terms of the distance they can see?
many thanks for your help in advance

 

[Kyle]

Hi Ben,

We've had no update on the release of an 8MP ColorVu Turret yet
The closest alternative is the DS-2CD2087G2-LU Mini Bullet.

It's unlikely that the ColorVu technology is developed enough to give you a vivid image in moonlight alone, so people tend to install them where there is some other ambient lighting available, which is probably why finding examples of them working just from moonlight is proving difficult. Somebody may put me right on this though!

The distance the camera can see is determined by both the focal length and range of the camera's built-in illuminators (for range in low-light) - The longer the focal length, the further the camera can 'see'. The range of the built-in illuminators can vary but are always listed in a camera's datasheet.
Most of the 8MP G2 AcuSense cameras have a 30m IR range, while the 4MP cameras have stronger IR illuminators with a 40m range.
The G2 ColorVu DS-2CD2087G2-LU Mini Bullet has a 40m white light range, while the G1 ColorVu's have a 30m range.
If you need something with even stronger illuminators, then you will need to look at the larger bullets instead.

 

[benm]

Hi all!
Could I please ask for a bit more advice before I pull the trigger on this?
I'm going to go for 2x DS-2CD2386G2 Cameras, potentially getting another one later. I might get a Hikvision doorbell too.

1. I have read in another post that now the ColorVu cameras can only turn the white light on when an alarm is triggered. I don't know if that makes sense as it surely needs the light to see events. But based on my scenario above where I can't have the light constantly on and don't have much ambient light, am I still best to go with the DS-2CD2386G2?

2. What is the best lens type to go for? 2.8mm or 4mm I think are my choices, but not sure how to work out what's best

3. I would like to go with your recommendation of DS-7608NI-I28P. This has enough channels and is PoE. But If I have a camera plugged into a switch/hub then onto the NVR would this also need to be a PoE switch?

4. What do these seemingly conflicting statements mean from their site on the NVR model? Does this mean I can only use this functionality on one camera? Or maybe one camera at a time but only 2MP cameras? Is this limiting for me??

"Up to 1-ch facial recognition for video stream"
"Up to 4-ch 2 MP (H.264/H.265) video analysis for human and vehicle recognition to reduce false alarm"

5. As this has only 2x HDD slots, is RAID not an option? Would you recommend using some sort of backup device alongside this, or maybe in the cloud?

6. I think 2x 6TB would be more than enough. But I read on WD site that "8TB, 10TB, 12TB, 14TB & 18TB drives are designed to support Deep Learning analytics in AI capable NVRs" - So would I need a minimum of 8TB to allow smart events, etc. in the Hikvision NVR? I understand I can't use H.265+ with this.

7. Are all the Accusense features covered by this NVR - I read on your product page that for false alarms I would need an 'AcuSense/DeepinMind NVR' - is this one or can you please provide a link to one (if its worth the upgrade?)?

8. One of the turret cameras will go on a side wall. Can i mount it directly on the side wall and physically turn the camera or flip the image in the app to correct it? Or do I really need to purchase a bracket? Brackets do make the cameras really stand out, so I would like to avoid if possible. But if do need one, which model do I need to get please?

9. Does anyone have experience with the Hikvision doorbell e.g. this one? I understand it is PoE hardwired only now. I don't intend to use any door control at home but would like to integrate with the cameras instead of something else like Ring

Thanks very much in advance!

 

[Dan]

Answers to the above questions are in this new thread you have created:

Complete Beginner Advice - Follow Up

Hi all, I am posting this as a new thread as I have a lot of questions :), but it is a follow up to this one. I'm going to go for 2x DS-2CD2386G2 Cameras, potentially getting another one later. I might get a Hikvision doorbell too. 1. I have read in another post that now the ColorVu cameras...

www.use-ip.co.uk