H265+ potential issue with LiveView on devices other than NVR?

[IED]

New setup :
DS-7608NI-I2/8P only running 3 cameras, whilst I get to grips with everything: 2 off 2347’s and 1 off 2365.
All purchased from Use-IP (Great service by the way!)

I have been having issues with viewing just one main stream in live view whilst on the same network but not direct from the NVR (So not remote).
it doesn’t matter whether the camera is a 2347 or a 2365.

Taking the 2347 as a example:

The main video stream is set to:
2560x1440 (4MP)
Variable bit rate
Highest Video quality
15fps
H265+

Viewing on IPad Pro via ProControl+ app
Ports forwarded and DDNS enabled

Using the main stream (HD) and the image pretty much freezes, network unstable message may/may not pop up.

Thought it was an issue with WiFi (although I checked the connection and have a 218Mbps download and a 20Mbps upload)
So decided to investigate further:

Viewing via PC WebBrowser logged into the NVR IP produces the exact same result: The Image freezes /stutters viewing just the one main stream in LiveView. (PC running Win7 and Internet Explorer)

So I thought perhaps it was a physical network issue: I changed the LAN cable between the NVR and the router: Made no difference.

Further investigation, I started playing with the Video settings.

If I change the Video Encoding to H264 (keeping all the other settings the same) I can view the live View in mainstream on both devices concurrently. No problem.

It looks to me that there is a problem using H265+ encoding if I want to view the main stream on anything other than the NVR.

Is this a known issue?
Or is there something else at play?

 

[IED]

I’ve updated the firmware to the latest on the NVR and the cameras.
No difference to the LiveView issue.
I’ve rightly or wrongly come to the conclusion that it’s down to a lack of processor grunt on the decoding side rather than any network issue.
Switched to H264 and everything works smoothly, so I will stick with that codec and lose storage capacity in return for the functionality I want.
Quickly coming to the realisation that its all about trade offs with IP cameras.

 

[Newtothis]

I had something similar with the DS-7604NI/K14P(B). I found lowering the max bit rate helped with the live view over WiFi.

​

 

[IED]

Thanks @Newtothis .
With H265+, the max bitrate setting is greyed out, so I have no control over it directly.
I assume reducing the video quality would also reduce the max bit rate, but by how much? and it kind of defeats the object of the main stream, which for me is to record the best quality, at the highest resolution my cameras will do.
The thing is H265+ should be the most efficient codec from a bandwidth / bitrate perspective, as it only saves changes to a scene over a variable grid space as I understand it.
Problem is the algorithm is going to be more processor intensive for recreating the scene for display.

My actual bandwidth over the WiFi network shouldn‘t be a problem with the speeds I have and I also had the same issue with a wired PC connection, so it rules it out anyway.

I wonder if the problem would disappear if I had more processing grunt to decode it? Not something I can test unfortunately.
I assume the NVR has dedicated hardware for the process, which is why it has no problem.

 

[Newtothis]

Thanks @Newtothis .
With H265+, the max bitrate setting is greyed out, so I have no control over it directly.
I assume reducing the video quality would also reduce the max bit rate, but by how much? and it kind of defeats the object of the main stream, which for me is to record the best quality, at the highest resolution my cameras will do.
The thing is H265+ should be the most efficient codec from a bandwidth / bitrate perspective, as it only saves changes to a scene over a variable grid space as I understand it.
Problem is the algorithm is going to be more processor intensive for recreating the scene for display.

My actual bandwidth over the WiFi network shouldn‘t be a problem with the speeds I have and I also had the same issue with a wired PC connection, so it rules it out anyway.

I wonder if the problem would disappear if I had more processing grunt to decode it? Not something I can test unfortunately.
I assume the NVR has dedicated hardware for the process, which is why it has no problem.

If i log into the NVR web interface, the bit rate is greyed out, but if i log into the camera web interface, i can change the settings there.
There is a video posted by Dan on this thread. Bit rate settings
It shows a handy chart of Hikvision recomended bit rates at 1 minute in.

 

[IED]

@Newtothis Thanks.
I will look into that this evening.

 

[JB1970]

You say you're not connecting remotely with the iPad but depending on setup you possibly are remote - even while on the same network.

In ProControl + how have you added the NVR? If it's registered using ProControl + / Hik-Connect method then you are routing your system via that service even when on the same network and it will manage the video stream. You'll know this just by checking the video quality - you'll have options of HD & Basic, whereas if you have a direct connection it'll be Clear, Fluent, Custom (Main Stream, Sub Stream)

Try adding your system via the IP/Domain method using it's external IP address. You say you have 218 meg download - am I guessing correctly that your with Virgin Media? If so you won't need to use DDNS as the IP address is tied to your Hub. My guess is that you'll have no such issues with a "direct" connection.

 

[IED]

@JB1970 Thanks.
Yes I’m on Virgin Media, Yes NVR added using ProControl+ / Hik-Connect method and Yes video quality options are HD & Basic.
My understanding is only the command signals go via the service.
I can literally unplug my Virgin Cable from the router and still see my camera feeds on my IPad.
So the video stream itself is still routed locally.
However once the Virgin cable is removed I can’t then switch video resolutions confirming the commands themselves are routed externally.

Adding the NVR via its IP instead and Yes the video quality options change to Clear, Fluent, Custom.
I can now disconnect the virgin cable and can still change the video resolutions, so everything is now local.

I need to check whether it will make any difference with the H265+ codec: Will report back later.

 

[JB1970]

@JB1970 Thanks.
Yes I’m on Virgin Media, Yes NVR added using ProControl+ / Hik-Connect method and Yes video quality options are HD & Basic.
My understanding is only the command signals go via the service.
I can literally unplug my Virgin Cable from the router and still see my camera feeds on my IPad.
So the video stream itself is still routed locally.
However once the Virgin cable is removed I can’t then switch video resolutions confirming the commands themselves are routed externally.

Adding the NVR via its IP instead and Yes the video quality options change to Clear, Fluent, Custom.
I can now disconnect the virgin cable and can still change the video resolutions, so everything is now local.

I need to check whether it will make any difference with the H265+ codec: Will report back later.

Ok . I’ve learned something there myself re command signals vs video. I’d based my comment on observations that the HD stream bit rate when using HikConnect method was lower than that of the Clear stream when using IP/Domain method as though it was altered. My preference is not to use HikConnect but unfortunately you have to on the HikConnect app on order to support alarm notifications. Not sure why Hik won’t enable alarms using IP/Domain method as it’s supported (allbeit with quirks) in the older iVMS 4500 app.

Regarding issues you’re having - did toggling the “Hardware Decoding” option in the app settings help or hinder?

 

[IED]

@JB1970 From memory: toggling “Hardware decoding” in the app made no difference, but that was with H265+.
I’ve checked and my Ipad Pro has native H265 decoding support.
I need to run a few experiments: I reverted straight back to H264 from H265+, but I haven’t tried H265 yet.
That’s my next test.

 

[IED]

Ok, I’ve done some more testing
H265+ (logged in to camera and set max bitrate as suggested by @Newtothis)
With “Hardware decoding preferred“ on in app - unusable HD LiveView.
With “Hardware decoding preferred“ off in app - unusable HD LiveView.
H265
With “Hardware decoding preferred” on in app - unusable HD LiveView.
With “Hardware decoding preferred” off in app - unusable HD LiveView.

H264
No issues regardless of “Hardware decoding preferred” setting in app.

 

[maionline]

Ok, I’ve done some more testing
H265+ (logged in to camera and set max bitrate as suggested by @Newtothis)
With “Hardware decoding preferred“ on in app - unusable HD LiveView.
With “Hardware decoding preferred“ off in app - unusable HD LiveView.
H265
With “Hardware decoding preferred” on in app - unusable HD LiveView.
With “Hardware decoding preferred” off in app - unusable HD LiveView.

H264
No issues regardless of “Hardware decoding preferred” setting in app.

I have this same NVR with 4x 8mp colorvu 2387 cameras. I'm having the same issue with H265 and H265+ encoding. H264 and H264+ seems to work ok.

On the app I get regular freezing and large green areas on the images unless I select basic quality where then it works fine

Did you ever get this sorted?